HomeFactopediaBrainoffsRankingsCommunityLog In
You know 0 facts





Sat 22 Jun 13 #1 
USS Palladin
Contributor


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9gtV-rSyEc&feature=player_embedded




Knows 46364 facts
like | send message
2 people like this post


Sat 22 Jun 13 #2 
saguingoira
Editor

Cool.




Knows 17305 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Sun 23 Jun 13 #3 
Java
Factactrix

Ditto.




Knows 40737 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Sat 6 Jul 13 #4 
jmaxg
Contributor

Just to be a tad serious for a second....

The NSA surveillance has involved just connecting phone numbers, right?

You do realise that any of us could do the same with current directories and some made up software, right?

And, if it was done, it would not be illegal.  Just making a point of that.




Knows 33692 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Sat 6 Jul 13 #5 
kevg
The Grumpinator

I love these theories that the government watches our every move and listens to every conversation. Who has the manpower to do that ?? You phone your auntie to ask how she is and a guy is listening ?? Whatever governments listen to has a reason, if you ain't done nothing wrong you aren't going to get into trouble.




Knows 40110 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Sat 6 Jul 13 #6 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Hmm....yes you could connect, but you would be a private citizen doing so not a government. 

Here in the U.S. we have the 4th Amendment, and while technically not protecting a right to privacy per se, it is strongly implied and you are protected against unreasonable search and seiures. By collecting all phone numbers and tracking what you do, is that unreasonable search? The courts have already told law enforcement they must get warrants when seeking the mobile records of suspects, which in the past they hadn't been doing. 

Finally under sworn testimony to Congress this is what the head of the NSA has said they are doing. Collecting phone numbers so that they can connect the dots to prevent terrorism. If that was only the case, I have to weigh my desire to be protected from terrorism vs my right to privacy and I think I would be for that, but I just don't think that this is the whole story. So if you are charged with a crime, can your defense attorney access the NSA records to prove or disprove the charges against you? Doubtful 

I for one would like to know under what guidelines they operate under, if I knew those I could make an informed opinion as to whether the program is a good one or not. Maybe these have been put our there and I haven't seen them but right now all I have is the President's statement that they are doing right by the law. 




Knows 46364 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Sun 7 Jul 13 #7 
sally906
Contributor

Doesn't work a friend and I made a phone conversation that used all the trigger words - neither of us got a knock on the door!  No one is listening. 

 

By the way - my friend is Moslem and she and her husband come from Pakistan. Surely a prime family to be listened too!




Knows 27433 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Mon 8 Jul 13 #8 
killerb54
Member

You know they don't come to the house automatically right? They build up paperwork on you for months and then one night while you're sleeping, the Navy Seals jump through your skylights.




Knows 15767 facts
like | send message
3 people like this post


Mon 8 Jul 13 #9 
kevg
The Grumpinator

last Aussie who had Muslim friends had to leave the site cos I was nasty to her !!




Knows 40110 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Mon 8 Jul 13 #10 
kevg
The Grumpinator

The powers that be have decided in their infinite wisdom that I should make clear my last post was a joke, cos Sal and I are good mates. I can think of easier ways to threaten Sal as I'm sure she can to me. Not only the NSA who are watching us all. When Sal stops sending me images of dead wallabies and laughing hysterically as she puts my face on the head.................




Knows 40110 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Mon 8 Jul 13 #11 
JMK
Editor

We all know you are nasty to everyone regardless of their friends Kev.




Knows 47700 facts
like | send message


Mon 8 Jul 13 #12 
sally906
Contributor

It's all cool folks - I knew the gorgeous Kev was was only joshing - just like I was when I made him those lovely Ricin infused chocolate muffins.  Just hope he didn't share them with anyone nice!!

Killer if I give you my address will you make sure to send the seals to the right spot!  Will make sure the curlers are out and I have my best flannelette PJs on.  They do come to Australia right? Oh and I had better arrange a skylight!




Knows 27433 facts
like | send message


Tue 9 Jul 13 #13 
jmaxg
Contributor

You keep saying "my right to privacy".

I have no problem with that but would just like to point out there is a difference between knowing a phone number and listening to or recording a conversation taking place because of that phone number.

And I am also saying I don't know if that has taken place.  It may have.  BUT, did it happen because of the American number calling a terrorist or did it happen because of a terrorist calling them?  The latter is dubious under the Patriot Act.

The point is that recording phone numbers, or even phone numbers that connect to other phone numbers, is not illegal.

As much as you might think a "private" or "unlisted" phone number applies under the Fourth Amendment to the Consitution of the United States, I don't think it does.




Knows 33692 facts
like | send message


Tue 9 Jul 13 #14 
sally906
Contributor

I have always thought that people who object to government emplyees recording thier phone calls have something to hide or are hugely egotistical in thinking that the government cares about their phone calls!

I would think they monitor for key words then hone in on excess usage. They would monitor those who are suspected of crimes. But in reality the vast majority of the population  have nothing to fear mostly due to manpower - or lack of it. They probably don't even have the resources to monitor likely suspects let alone the innocent.  Is all a storm in a teacup to give conspiracy theorists to moan about.




Knows 27433 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Tue 9 Jul 13 #15 
jmaxg
Contributor

Thanks sally.........you actually read what I said.




Knows 33692 facts
like | send message


Tue 9 Jul 13 #16 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Oh come on.....

You do it I am not saying that is right, but I am saying that you are correct in thinking that it is legal for you do this, but then again, unless you know something I don't or aren't revealing it, you don't have the massive power and force that a government has and this makes a world of difference in saying you can collect vs a government collecting. Not the WHAT....it is the WHO? You can collect all you want, I doubt you have the power to arrrest me.....they do. 

Finally...doh, I give you my phone number I have consented, the government takes my phone number through other means, then I have not consented. That said, the phone number data base is out there for anybody to use and find but even if you have my phone number, you can't use it to track who I have called but the government can and I can't believe that you don't think that violates your right to privacy. 

Finally I would take issue with Sally. Big Data is all the rage now. Finding out what all those bits and bytes say about you as a consumer (God knows what the government can do with it). For instance, Wal Mart has used the Big Data it has stored in its computers from you the consumer to know that when a hurricaine is about to strike the SE U.S. that people for some reason stock up on Pop Tarts. Yeah Pop Tarts. So they put the data to the test and before the last hurricaine struck they shipped extra loads of Pop Tarts to the stores in the affected region. Long story short, they made millions over a short period of time. Computerization and better algothrims make man power less of a factor than computer power and exactly who in the world has the most super computers........government. 

I don't go around wearing tin foil on my head so the government can't read my thoughts but if Rupert Murdoch can hack phones, can it really be all that hard for the government to do, and I want them to hack the terrorist's phone, but what is their criteria?




Knows 46364 facts
like | send message


Tue 9 Jul 13 #17 
kevg
The Grumpinator

Obviously the criteria is anyone walking round with terrorist tattooed on their forehead. Other than that the only criteria available is information supplied or gathered. How do you gather information ?? You check on people who are suspicious (plenty of them round here). You read their mail and tap their phones. Don't act supicious and you don't get checked. It's not a perfect system but for the most part it works, until someone can tell me a better way to stop terrorists I'm all in favour of phone/mail/cctv checking. Also works for gangsters I believe.

Huge row in UK at moment cos the cops shot a guy in a car. 3 guns found in car (which are illegal over here). It's freely admitted he was on his way to shoot a fellow gangster and drug dealer. Now his family want the cop who shot him prosecuted for murder!! Should have got him on the way back from shooting the other feller is all I can see the police did wrong.




Knows 40110 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Tue 9 Jul 13 #18 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Well, yes, of course with terrorism you want the full power of the government to be used and for now that is what they are saying the U.S. does, just against terrorists and oops...our allies....so sorry...

Look our government can't even run the no fly list right. Sen. Ted Kennedy ended up on it, other harmless folks have ended up on it. How many innocent people are put on a list for their list for activities as harmless as posting on..."Factacular" ?. Hopefully none. The U.S. has the Foreign Intelligence Court that is supposed to approve wiretaps and search and such, but have they gone too far. Edward Snowden thinks so, I don't want to know, but I would like more info. 




Knows 46364 facts
like | send message


Tue 9 Jul 13 #19 
Honey Badger
Member

The government in the US is NOT allowed to collect the sort of information on ordinary citizens the way it has been. It is a violation of the 4th Amendment, plain and simple.  I don't know why there is any discussion about this.  If there is concern about terrorism or even me bitching about that lout in the White House, fine, but regular citizens who are minding their own business?  NO!  A thousand time over!  It is wrong and I am speaking for the USA not for any other country's laws.  I speak for the law of the land in the USA!  Other places have different laws and I am no expert on them and don't pretend to be.

The no fly list is a joke.  They let muslims through without any inspection and pat down my ancient husband.  It is a joke and the next thing you know they will be hiring radical muslims to work at the airports.  JFK is manned by African immigrants right now.  And American born people have no jobs.  I don't have anything against Africans but why are we allowing so many different groups in when we have Americans still out of work.  I think the American people should now what is said on the White House phones, and the Congressional phones.  I think we would be horrified.




Knows 4428 facts
like | send message


Tue 9 Jul 13 #20 
sally906
Contributor

For instance, Wal Mart has used the Big Data it has stored in its computers from you the consumer to know that when a hurricaine is about to strike the SE U.S. that people for some reason stock up on Pop Tarts. Yeah Pop Tarts. So they put the data to the test and before the last hurricaine struck they shipped extra loads of Pop Tarts to the stores in the affected region.

 

But why does it matter? Whay is that bad? (other than I can't stand pop tarts) I think woolworths does that here - I wish they'ed hurry up and realise I like Greens gravy granuals, and Liptons Vanilla Chai tea and I always shop Saturday mornings from 9am - that way they would always ensure the shelf is always stocked up!!!  If someone is mointering my internet usage they would also be bored out of their tiny minds - I go to book discussion pages, wine disscussion pages, Factacular (ok - that site can be a bit dodgy - lol) but nowhere controversial.  Yes if I spent my time on how to make explosive things, kill people or overthrow a government then I would fully expect some military type people to swoop down the skylight I don't have.  But I don't - so they can gather information about me to their little hearts content.




Knows 27433 facts
like | send message


Tue 9 Jul 13 #21 
killerb54
Member

The rationale that corporations keeping data for sales analysis is comparable to the most powerful government in the world turning their nation into a 1984 situation is laughable at best and idiotic in nature.




Knows 15767 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Wed 10 Jul 13 #22 
USS Palladin
Contributor

Try to keep it civil sir.

The use of Big Data by Wal Mart is just an example of what can be collected and how it can be used. Good for business, good  for consumers who like Pop Tarts, I personally don't, but the point is I don't have a choice in the matter or maybe I do, I can buy them at a store that doesn't track it. I really don't care, if all the tracking allows my needs to be met as a consumer then maybe I am willing to forgo them finding out about my secret need for them. Maybe they just take inventory numbers, but if I have one of their Wal Mart cards (which you have to fill out willingly which I don't do) then they know more about me than just my habits, they know what days I generally go, what I buy, how I pay, etc, etc, etc. This is just a corporation and while powerful doesn't have any of the powers of government which are far more immense. Will it turn in into a 1984, I doubt you can say no to that because we just don't know what they are doing with this except for WHAT they tell us. 

So the point is not that they don't have the data, they do, but what are they, or better yet, WE going to let them do with it. Privacy may be dead, maybe some don't care, maybe you don't (I think that is the case) but this isn't going away and you still have a choice. There are probably some really good things about Big Data that could be used to improve society on the flip side. I just want to know the rest of you well....carry on. 




Knows 46364 facts
like | send message


Wed 10 Jul 13 #23 
Bright But Idle
Fact Daddy

If you're talking Big Data, then you might find this interesting:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/02/16/how-target-figured-out-a-teen-girl-was-pregnant-before-her-father-did/




Knows 43355 facts
like | send message


Wed 10 Jul 13 #24 
Honey Badger
Member

That is so disturbing, BBI, but is just further proof of how far reaching the personal data collection has gone.  Let's go back to manual tallying in a store and see how far this information BS goes.  Not far, I can ensure you, because nobody in the US who has been going to public schools knows how to add any longer.  Our society is DEAD.  Nobody even wants to write in cursive, or can read it....it is sickening.  Yes, those stores have all sorts of information on all of us and it is downright scary.




Knows 4428 facts
like | send message


Wed 10 Jul 13 #25 
killerb54
Member

Stop going to those stores and stop using their customer savings cards. Problem solved.


Knows 15767 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Thu 11 Jul 13 #26 
Bright But Idle
Fact Daddy

Absolutely right.

You have opted into having your shopping tracked in exchange for vouchers/offers/savings. Quid pro quo.

 

That reminds me, Status Quo are playing near here next month, but I think it's more than a quid.




Knows 43355 facts
like | send message


Fri 12 Jul 13 #27 
Honey Badger
Member

That is all well and good, but it is too late now, isn't it.  




Knows 4428 facts
like | send message


Fri 12 Jul 13 #28 
killerb54
Member

Next time read what you're signing up for. The 35 cents saved on a can of corn isn't quite worth it.


Knows 15767 facts
like | send message


Fri 12 Jul 13 #29 
jmaxg
Contributor

Honey Badger, BBI was referring to "cookies" and similar "trackbots" that resulted in someone who received the information going "SH%T!  That sounds like my daughter!" and being right because he made an assumption.  He could've been wrong.  It just so happened he was right......if, in fact, this is true and not some tailored urban legend.

I have asked about the "internet" side of the NSA surveillance before....I asked Doctor Factenstein to comment.

But in lieu of that advice, if you are nervous, try reinitialising your hard drive and reinstalling your system.  I do that every six months just for the hell of it.

In so doing, you erase everything to do with that former life......all your drives are wiped.......you start again.  It's up to you to figure out what backups are.

I'm still with sally906.........I still don't get what the problem is.  Knowing a phone number is not the same as listening to a phone number.  If you can prove that listening to a phone number has taken place in some illegal way then, of course, we have an issue.

As for the internet?  Knowing what you can do with your browser is a good start.




Knows 33692 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


Sat 13 Jul 13 #30 
Honey Badger
Member

Nah, I am not even worried about if.  I don't care at what they see on my activities except the man sex sites I visit.  




Knows 4428 facts
like | send message
1 person likes this post


This topic is now closed.






   About - Terms - Privacy Log In